How to make ALIGNED Business Decisions with Sage Polaris

entrepreneur interview Apr 24, 2021

Your content falls on deaf ears?

Nobody sees it?

Then you tell yourself that your work is a FAILURE?

Most entrepreneurs struggle with this at some point, so today I'm excited to be talking to Sage Polaris.

Sage is a CONSCIOUS launch strategist & copywriter - here to share WHAT TO DO when your copy just isn't working!

In our conversation, she’ll teach you how to look at your business model & decide what you really WANT - with CONSCIOUS decisions & design.

I urge you not to miss this convo - you might learn something GAME CHANGING!

➡️Sage is also gifting us her amazing Triple Email Open Rates Template in 3 Steps here: 

Watch The Full Interview! 

Full Transcript

Jen: Have you ever felt that with your content or an effort that you're putting forth, like a launch or a sales page or just something that you really want to put out into the world just falls on deaf ears? That nobody sees it or, “quote-unquote” is a failure.  

This is something that most entrepreneurs struggle with at one point or another and today I'm really excited to be talking to Sage Polaris. Sage is a top-level copywriter. She actually works with some really Internet-famous people. And I'm going to you, like James Wittmore,  Chalene Johnson, and people that I know who are big deals and that Sage has done the copywriting for them. So for her to be here with me today, I'm super excited.

Plus, I met Sage at an event in person back in “the before times” when we were allowed to see people in person. So to connect with her today is exciting for me. But also, I'm really excited to share what she has to say with you because we're specifically going to be talking about what to do when you feel like nothing is working. Your copy isn't working and how Facebook ads play into this. So I have no idea where we're going to go, but I know it’s going to be good. So, Sage, thank you so much and I really am honored that you're here today. Thank you. 

Sage: Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. And that was a really sweet introduction. The before times really got my attention because I was like, “Oh, yeah. There was a time when we were in a room together,” and now there are a lot more screens between everyone. 

It’s special, though, and I'm happy to be here.

Jen: Can you tell us what you do, exactly?

Sage: Sure. So often I will say I'm a conscious launch strategist and copywriter to the stars. And depending on what marketing planet you do or do not live on, you will either give me a blank stare or you'd be like, “Oh, she's amazing.”

I mean, I am kind of gaslighting myself when I say that.  But the point is, I've been in the online marketing world. I'm eight years deep into it. And essentially when you're scrolling on Facebook, you see an ad where somebody is offering some kind of gift or promoting some online event, I help my clients write those ads. I help them write the landing pages that than capture your name and email. And from there you'll get emails regularly from them that might point you to a page for the offer that they have. All of that falls under the umbrella of private copy client work that I have done.

I’ve done it consistently for eight years, but these last two years, my business model is more so like, sometimes copywriter mostly business coach at this point and lots of strategy for everyone. 

Something, before we hit record that Jen: and I were talking about, is people get very focused on the wrong things when they want to make money online. And so I have to steer them back into the direction of “Where  are your profits is coming from? And in turn, what should you be spending your efforts in time on?” So that's kind of my sweet. I call it my profit sweet spots.

Those are the things I love teaching people because I'm like, “Oh, yeah. Don't get distracted because there is this Wild West world of the Internet,” 

Jen: And more things just keep hitting us every single day. There's always a new platform. There's always a strategy. I was thinking Clubhouse. I have consciously decided to not to get my toe in Clubhouse. But one of my favorite things about following you, because like I said I'm on Sage’s list and I met her in person,  I love that you, well you said in your intro, that you consciously help people. It's really about being in alignment, and there's not a one-size strategy for everybody. 

Which is part of why I'm so excited that you're here, because all of the people who listen to me have a business. They want to scale it. They want to grow it. They mostly feel overwhelmed. Sometimes they are hiding from their businesses for whatever reason. Sometimes that's confidence or just straight-up overwhelm. Sometimes it's because they don't want to have a sales call, so they'll do some self-sabotage, so they don't ever really have to have a sales call. They love when I point that one out.

But regardless of what you want, you have to do it in alignment with your own mores and everything that means something to you. But not every business coach teaches that. SO can you talk a little bit about your journey into moving into alignment?

Sage: Oh, my gosh, that's such a great question. I certainly have evolved my own business over the years.

One thing that I did where I kind of zigging when everyone else was zagging and making those conscious decisions about my business was as I was getting started as a copywriter for my clients, I noticed a lot of my counterparts like my peers they were getting really frustrated with their client work and being like, “I'm just going to doing client work and go straight to launching a so I have to with customers anymore.

And in my mind, I'm like, “Did you think about the fact that if you sell a course, you'll probably have to have 100 students to make about the same money you would from 10 private clients? And do you understand that you're just 10x-ing the problem you already have?” 

Which my heart goes out to every single one of them because I saw the trend, right? And I was like, “Mmm….”  I did try launching a course about two years into my business just to honestly see how it would go. I quickly was like, “Nope, I very much prefer working for private clients,” and so I allowed myself to go back.

But what I people do is they make these big announcements on Facebook. “I'm no longer working with clients. I'm only doing courses.” And I think they feel like it's a to promote their next thing. But then I see them crawl back to their original position of working for clients if the course doesn't go the way they wanted. So I just feel like, why can't in some instances, and again, no one size fits all business models here, but why can't… What I've done with my business, instead of turning the dial all the way up on one thing and all the way down, why not adjust the dial slowly and come up with the percentages of your profit sweet spots by calculating how much money are you making from these different revenue streams?

And once you've determined that instead of trying to say, “I'm going to go from 75% client work and switch that to 75% coursework,” do it slowly. Like I say just kind of slow down on your desire to evolve your business. 

And I had to make those conscious decisions. I never completely abandoned my client work at any stage. Even now, I run a mastermind, which is one revenue stream. I'm getting ready to film a free live course that will then convert people and hopefully into membership.  We'll see how it goes. But all along the way, I've continued working with private clients. The only thing that's really evolved to go back to your original question is that now I'm more supporting the clients in the strategy more than the copy. Because I realized with my client’s impeccable copy does you no good if you haven't figured out your audience in your offer, right?

Jen: Yes.

Sage: For those who can't see Jen:, her mind went to the heavens, and she was like, “I agree!”  

If we don't figure out the audience in the offer, I think of it as a pyramid. The audience is at the bottom, the offers in the middle and the copy are at the top. And I put the design at the top. Copy and design are brand decisions, right? Their branding choices and having strong branding is important. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying take it off the pyramid altogether. I'm just saying, like, you can sell to someone without an impeccable sales page. There are ways to build relationships with people, and that's where it comes in where I'm like, “Okay, look at your business model and decide what you really want here.

As you said earlier, this conscious decision about what you want your sales process to look like, because creating a beautiful funnel is amazing, but I people hide behind the funnel. They want it to do the selling for them. 

Jen: When you have something that people want, that's a hard piece. So when I with my Masterminders, I make them go back to “There are two foundational things. Who's your audience and what's your offer?” And most of the time, they get so mad at me because they feel like “I've already done that,” but when we start to pull it apart, they haven't done it yet.

So a lot of people are making the assumption that I want to go to the fun stuff. The fun stuff is the branding. What is my voice? What words? It's way more fun. But I've worked with so many people who, by the time they get to me, they're like, “My website isn't working. My social media isn't working,” and it's because they're just they don't have clarity on those first two things. Who's your audience and what your offer?

So that's so fun to hear somebody else say that.

Sage: I know, I know it's a lot and it's easy to get distracted. Like you said earlier, there are so many ways to promote yourself. And here's something that I want to, like, put into this conversation, like, onto the floor. 

I know someone personally who runs a million-dollar Facebook ads agency and ignores her email list. So I know people like to be, you have to have an email list. It's really good to have an email list. I can make lots of arguments about how the open rates are much higher with the email you're getting between 30 and 70% open rate. If you're getting the results, you should be with your list. And depending on the audience segmentation, let me just put that disclaimer in there. But that being said, you're getting between a 30 to 70% open rate on your emails. The reach on Instagram last day checked was 4%. 

So your reach is much wider with your email list. Yes. And your email list is a business if you make it a business and you focus on it and you constantly nurture those relationships. Yes, that's a business. Your social media is a business if you make it a business including your personal page. So your Instagram is a business. Instagram Stories alone is one channel where I have watched someone make a six-figure business. She never writes to her email list. She doesn't get sales from posts. She gets sales simply from stories and DMing with people. 

So I just want it to be clear this is why I say no one size fits all.

My current client, I had a day with her. I was blessed to be to safely travel to Palm Springs with her, and we did the whole safety protocol to be able to do that. That being said, her whole business is based on affiliate relationships, and I will only have one affiliate partner this year period.

Jen: Right.

Sage: So she'll probably I mean, if we hit our goals, she'll have 60 by the end of the year. So we'll see where that metric goes for her. But again, just make these choices without trying to look at what's on somebody else's plate. 

You’re like, “Well, I want to eat that.” Of course, you do. You want to eat the results of it, but how you get there depends on your network and who you know, and less about what you know and more about who you know.

Jen: There's also this place that I'm hearing you hint out of, “Where do you find pleasure in your business?” So for me, I love writing emails to my list. It's one of my must favorite parts, but I clients who don't find that pleasurable. They'd much rather spend all of their time on Instagram and I love this conversation because people are so quick to look out and say, “What is everybody else doing? Oh, the guru says I should do this.” But I love that your messaging is always ”How can we make this fit for you?” And I seeing where the pleasure is for you is a great question to start with.

Sage: Yeah, I do ask them with my clients. And that's such a discernment, Jen:. I ask them once they calculate their profit sweet spots with me. I say, “Okay, of all of these revenue streams, which one gives you the most ease and joy?” Because that is going to the most ease and joy in making money. It's an important connection. It's such an important connection.

Jen: I want to move into talking about what we had originally discussed talking about, which is this idea of Facebook ads because I think Facebook ads are pretty scary to people. People who are well versed in it's just like breathing. But for the rest of us, it feels like that's a lot of money. And then not even to talk about the moral aspect of Facebook. Like some people really have a moral aversion to all of the Facebook stuff.

Sage: Yeah. I hear you.

Jen: Can we talk about what you think we should be thinking about in terms of having a Facebook ad approach?

Sage: Yeah. Absolutely.

So for starters, a moral aversion to Facebook. I get that because I personally am looking at some investments in the market, and I want to invest in platforms that are aligned with my values.

So FANG is what they call it in the market, which is just from the name you can tell. It's horrible. Facebook, Apple, Netflix, and Google. Those are the ones that will make you the most money if you invest in them on the market. And I've been in conversation with some people who are very smart at playing the market. And I told them I don't believe in investing in FANG. I will find other people to invest in.

And his response to me, bless him, he's a friend, was like, “Well, do you want to make money or not?” Right?

So it's a very real thing to make a conscious decision to invest in that it is not always creating positive social change. I will just put that out there. And I can say that I have seen that platform when used in the ways that I believe in and that are in line with my values. I've seen it create positive social change. Right?

So it's tricky because, on one hand, I see the positive effects. And on the other hand, we all see the negative effects. So you do have to make that personal judgment call for yourself. And I think the way to do that is just to put your hand on your heart and check-in. Get out of your head and get into your heart and say, “Is this the place for me? Is this the thing I to do?

Facebook ads can be very scary. I say it's a lot like the first time you launch in the sense that it's kind of a gauntlet. There are so many moving parts. There are so many things. you want to make sure you get it right The first time. you don't want to feel like you're throwing money down the toilet, I get it. And here are my thoughts on that. Part of it being scary when it comes to any investment in your business, just like I was saying, I want to invest in the market. I feel like you should diversify.

That means, yes, put money into Facebook ads if you morally feel like it's okay for you and everyone gets to make that decision for themselves. And in the same stroke don't have that be the only way that you are growing your list, right? There are ways to do organic outreach, which I love the most.

Honestly, I did an analysis of the revenue per lead. And when I say the word lead, I don’t love that word because it humanizes. These are human beings. But I will tell you,  in my highest earning per lead just to use that as the term so we're all on the same page. My highest earning per lead in my business was speaking on that stage where you were at the event in Niagara Falls. 

And so I analyzed that over several years of my business. What are my highest earnings per lead? Speaking was number one, and a close second was referrals. I'm surprised speaking beat referrals, but it did. So don't overlook getting referral partnerships in your business and constantly nourishing your network.

Then after referrals, I believe I'd have to go back and look at the numbers, but ads were pretty low down there. The podcast was pretty low down there. Just so you know. It doesn't mean that there's no value in doing those things. Because with the ads, let's say you don't get the return on ad spend that you're hoping for. That's fine because you still got the visibility and what relationships were created from that some major names who have hired me to do their writing have certainly hired me because they saw my ads and they're like, “Oh, I remember you.” I maybe met them at an event afterward too.

So it's this multiplying factor that happens where you're everywhere and then people feel like they know you already.

Jen: It’s like they’re connecting the dots.

Sage: Totally. It is. It’s a bunch of dots. Diversify your dots! 

Jen: Yes.

This leads me back to a point I like to make a lot which is there are so many gurus out there who make these claims about marketing or relationship building or business growth and that it can be really fast or meteoric. And I know that it's really quite a marathon but having ads might move you along faster, but it's still a marathon. 

Sage: That's such good a point. And I agree with it wholeheartedly.

I also would say that ads are good, but not always. And this is something to keep a keen eye on. There are certain times of the year where running ads will feel catastrophic to you. 

Jen: Can you talk a little bit about that specifically? I'm curious.

Sage: Oh, 100%. you have to pay attention to the calendar because if you try to compete during Black Friday on the market, putting ad sellers in. Some people do okay. But it really depends on your industry. Some people will get eaten alive because the market is flooded with dollars of ecomm or whatever else it is. So you have to be very conscious and aware of who else is spending money on Facebook at that time. And the best way to discern that is to look at the calendar.

So to give you a very specific example, I am getting ready to offer a free filming of my copy course. I've never done this before, so we're testing the ads. So what I did was I said, “Great. Let's put 500 dollars towards it and see how it goes.” And it went really badly.

Jen: What was in the way? 

Sage: So our warm audience converted well. Cold audience is very hard to get in with, and we needed to warm them up previously. I'm so blessed to have Latasha Booth. You can find her on Facebook. She runs The Launch Guild, and she so graciously offered me 15 minutes to look at what happened, and she's like, “Oh, yeah. You’re getting Jen:11 per lead because of a couple of reasons,” she’s like, “ I don’t know the exact reasons because I’m looking at this really quick with you.” But essentially what she said is “Right now we’re leading up to the inauguration on the 15th.  So the market is being flooded with dollars. It’s throwing the algorithm off.” And on top of that, I was running to a cold audience to apply for something. So I'm asking them to do a lot, like, fill out more than just your name and email.

When we run those ads again, we will warm them up before we ask them to take that much of action. My warm audience was around Jen:2 to Jen:3, which is industry standard lead conversion right now. But I could tell you I could get way better leads, just going into Facebook groups that allow promotions. And I am like, right now, people are signing up. I can get hundreds of leads for no cost except for my time, which is an important cost. 

Jen: Well, you pay either with your time or your energy or your money. I always say that. So you just have learned one of the ways. Do you remember what was happening back in election time, for example. Were you running any ads then? I'm just curious what was happening money wise. 

Sage: Oh, such a good question. So I'm glad you asked that, because at that time, what I typically do throughout the year is I run ads to my Triple Email Open Rates, which is a gift that essentially it's three scripts to clean up your list or if you have ghosted your list for a while and not talked to them for a while, it's a great way to reconnect with them. And I'll totally tell your audience how to get it then at the end of this. Yeah, because everybody needs it. I give it everywhere because it's the most important thing I could teach people. 

So that being said, I run ads to it consistently throughout the year. And as we came up towards election time, we made a conscious choice. We said we're gonna run the ads in August, September. We'll see how things are going in October and then close in November, any budget because it's not worth it. I'm not going to try and get anybody's attention. So the ads were doing pretty well in October between Jen:1 and Jen:6 for a lead.

I miss the days of 25 cent leads, but that ship is pretty much sailed.  Every once in a while, you hear, like a quiz, maybe doing that for people. But I mean, it's very, very rare.

So that being said, we kept the ads on until then, and then we just shut it down. And then I had this choice, right? Do I turn them back on in December? And I felt myself saying no, and not for the reason. most people would think I decided not to turn the ads box back on in December, because when I checked in with myself, I said, “Even though my team is managing this, it still requires my creative direction and I don't feel like doing that right now.” I just want to serve my clients. I don't need it. And maybe that's my biggest advice.

If I'm giving advice in this whole conversation is, do you really need something to work? And if you are, like, white-knuckling like, “This has to work,” I would say back away from it, because if you don't get the result you want, the disappointment is a lot to process.

Jen: Can we talk a little bit about that? I had this epiphany this morning. It's so amazing that you're bringing this up because I was tidying up the bathroom and I'm running ads right now to a planner that I have my content planner and it's going well. And I have no idea if the leads coming on to my list will eventually convert into customers. So I have a long way to go in getting into a relationship with them. But that's where my ad money is going right now. And I'm giving them a workshop because the very first question that they always ask after they download this thing is, “Okay, great. I understand your system, but what do I say every single day?” So I'm like, “Fine. I'll create a workshop just for that.

And then my eventual plan is to open up a low-cost membership for people who want to learn how to become content creators. I have this vision, and I want it now, right? And so I'm like, I can see the whole thing, and I want to make it now. And I want to impact people. And so I was getting super jammed up in my head. And today, for some reason, I was cleaning the bathroom and I was like, a workshop. Like, that's enough. If the membership doesn't go until April or March or whatever, like, who cares? Like nothing else in my business is different. I have my mastermind. I have my private clients. Like, I have everything I need. Why am I so jammed up about this? So it was just this moment of, like, going back to yourself and checking in, like putting your hand on your heart. Like you started this conversation by saying, “Why am I doing this?

Sage: I get it. I get it.

You know, it has a lot to do with being attached to results, which is normal as a business owner to feel an attachment to these people that you investing your time and your money into, and you have this expectation.

I am curious if you don't mind sharing, are you charging for the workshop or are you just doing it? 

Jen: This workshop I am charging for it's not very much, but it'll be a$47 workshop that people who download it can get it for $37. So it's very low cost.

If you have a suggestion about that, do you think it should be free? I'm just curious.

Sage: I don't think it should be free. I think you should test the audience and see if they'll pay for something low cost like that. I think you're on the right track and it'll be really interesting because you'll learn so much from the workshop that will make the membership better. So in terms of what you're doing, I think you're totally on the right path. 

Here's the interesting thing. I think people will snap up the workshop from your list, and I think that because of the price point. It's a short sale cycle when you have a low price point that even if you put that out, organically, people will also buy it. So it'll be interesting because you'll see these leads that came through the ad. But then you'll see these new people who just buy the workshop just because. Now you'll have these two people coming together and being able to serve them and seeing how that goes and then being able to turn that into a membership is amazing. And you'll even be able to discern that some of those people or actually meant to hire you for VIP days if you offer them or hire you for a full-blown copy project if you're offering them.

The one thing I encourage people to do is not get attached to what sale is going to happen from these relationships. But just to keep your eye on selling to two different buyers, basically. Your people who are going to continue to want the low-cost stuff, but make sure you pluck out the people who would love to pay you way more for a more hands-on experience. And that's why I don't get rid of my private client work, because even now, as I'm launching this free filming on my course,. It's called the Beta Course and it's called the Color Coded Copy System.

People see me post about that and they are like, “I am so coursed out. But man, would I love to hire you as a copywriter. Are you available?” And I'm like, “Come on in. Here's the door. Come this way.

And those people are interesting because the people who pay for what we could deem as a high ticket, they don't want to funnel. They want a payment in. Some of them don't even want a sales call. They just want a payment link. 

Jen: And those are amazing because they know that they don't want to pay with their time. They want somebody. They know they want somebody to do it with them or for them. 

Sage: Yeah, or even like they want templates, but they want my keen eye on it. It's not even that I need to do the writing. My VIP day sometimes makes people want to throw their lunch at me. It is a full day, but it's three check-ins, 30 minutes each and I charge 5,000 for three 30 minute check-ins. But they write all day, or they have a team who writes all day. And so I found a way to leverage the best use of my time and their time.

And here's why, because even though the VIP day starts on X Day, all of my intake forms prior to that day get them to work immediately. They feel like they have work to do right now. They fill out all the intake. We show up live for the day. They're always bubbling over with excitement, and we get so much done. That doesn't seem humanly possible. Except for I have all these standard operating procedures that I've been investing in and have developed over the last eight years.  So when everybody else kept launching courses, I hired a project manager. So when everyone zigged, I zagged, and that investment into my business is paying me for decades to come I already know. I'm only in decade one of my business. 

Jen: I love this. 

Sage: It's so good. So then what they're really getting, what it seems like is three 30 minute check-ins is truly all of my proven templates, all of the strategies that I've tested over the last eight years across multiple industries with 350 plus projects that I've done for clients. So I'm bringing that into a day, and they see it. They see the value, the way that I approach a launch is so different. 

I know a lot of people, Jen:, who if you came to them with that same problem of, “I want to convert these customers to a workshop and then send them to a cost membership.” They'd be “Well, why don't you just sell a high ticket?” And I see that a lot. 

You had asked me earlier, what do I see in terms of the industry and what gurus are doing? The gurus that make money fast in their business push their audience to sell high-ticket so that they can charge high-ticket. I don't have a with it per se until I do. Meaning if I think they're harming their audience by doing that, I think it's fine. However, with fast growth inside of business I've watched several of my friends get to a million or more does come sometimes at a cost. It might be a personal cost. It might be a business cost, but I can tell you, it's rare that I've seen it happen for someone, and it didn't come at a cost.  

So I just want people to be aware of what you brought up earlier, like slow growth versus fast growth. If I had my choice, and I chose slow growth also, whether or not you want to charge high or low-ticket. And I would say there's no wrong answer. But it does depend on your network and what makes the most sense for your business model based on the resources that you have.

I do want to just acknowledge that you are running ads to a lead magnet. That's like the top of your funnel because a lot of people get mad at Facebook because they try to run leads to a webinar that needs to convert immediately after. But you're clearly playing the long game. You're running the marathon by running ads to lead magnets. So well done. That's beautiful.

Jen: Thank you. Oh, that's so nice. That’s good feedback. 

I wanted to shift a little bit and talk about... Because one of things we really want to talk about is why we find when we've had a failure. But also when we've had a success, can you speak a bit about that?

Sage: This is huge. Yeah, it's funny. Like you could make, you know, Jen:50 and feel ashamed because your goal is to make Jen:5,000 or you could make Jen:5,000,000 and feel ashamed because you don't want people to know how much money you made. Isn't that funny?

And I see it.

I think what the reasoning behind that wanting to hide is, is something in your subconscious. And I'm not a psychologist but I hang out with a lot of hypnotherapists. One of them is like a dear friend. She was in Niagara Falls with us, and she did a talk about our subconscious. And so what's funny is you get implanted in your brain the way that she teaches it. Her name is Kristin Dwan from The Healing Woods. She teaches how essentially growing up as a child between 0 and 8 is formative years for your subconscious to form. And what happens is the critical mind is like the front part of your brain. And those are the things where like your conscious thoughts come through. But once you understand that from 0 to 8, you formed a lot of your positive and negative habits. And so funny things happen, right? 

Like you hear your parents fighting about money when you're four, and then you think money is bad. But then money also at the holiday time or on your birthday, you got a gift, depending on your beliefs, and you associate that money bought you good things, and those are celebrations. So you have both these positive and negative. Then really strange things that might confuse your subconscious happen like you see your Uncle Woody and he's like your best bud. But then you see him smoking a cigarette and then in your subconscious addiction is a good thing, right?

All of these things are happening, and you carry that into your adulthood and into your business. So when you make a lot of money, you might think it's bad. And so these are blocks. These are blocks that come into our mind, and we have to actively work to clear these blocks out. And so for you to truly own a success means that you've truly received that you earned it and that you're worthy of that Jen:5,000,000 and that you didn't somehow cheat somebody of anything by making that money. So those are things that really encourage people to do some of the deeper mindset work. 

It's really unfortunate that mindset work sometimes gets put into a category of being too woo. And if you haven't heard that term, it's like the idea of bringing spirituality into business. I think there's nothing wrong with bringing your beliefs and your values into your business. And if you are like, “Man, I love the idea of hypnotherapy. I’m going to do it. That sounds amazing.” Then do it.  

But some people, maybe it's not hypnotherapy. Maybe it's something else.

Like, first of all, hypnotherapists don't make you cluck chicken or bark like a  dog, because it's not theater hypnosis. It's therapy.

Jen: Staged hypnosis. Yeah.

Sage: And so you might have a block around wanting to do some of that mindset work because you might have heard some stigma around it. And so I just want to remind people who are listening like this, it's neuroscience. It's based on our neural pathways. And so if you need to go have the science back data to want to do the work, whatever will get you in the door to realize that mindset work is important. Please do it because it's the most important work that I ever do. And it's not just about my business. It's about also healing my ancestral things that I have. It's healing future generations around money and pre-paving their path for the future. I just realize that it's so much more important than me. I actually don’t like the word self-made. I'm very much community made and that community, and the way that I want to impact it is really important to me. So I try to carry the torch for my community and how can you heal your mind to improve your business and your personal life?

Jen: I think that some people resist doing this work not because it feels woo or spiritual. In addition, some people don't want to really know. It's very scary because once you see it, you can't unsee it. And so I that a of people like to keep those blinders on. And if I do the work, I'll never have to know, right?

Sage: Yeah. I said that earlier today. It's so funny that you said that it's the truth. Like one thing, I think particularly for women and I'll give you a right now, because any time I about this stuff, I want people to feel like they have a of action from listening. And so the one resource that I loved recently, particularly for women or anyone who identifies as a woman is Women Who Run With the Wolves by Dr Clarissa Pinkola Estes. It's a about mythology, but it's analyzed by a psychologist. And one of the things she talks about for women is that we are cut off from our intuition at a young age. And we are often not taught about it. And intuition is so important in how I run my business. So, if you want to start doing the work, that's one place to start is to just read that book.

The first page made me cry. I was just like, “Oh, my gosh.

Jen: My massage therapist told me about that book, and I haven’t picked it yet. But I need you to know, as you started talking about it. I live in the city of Syracuse. A deer has just come into the front yard, and it's like, right outside in. So don't know what that means, but I feel like I need to have told you that. Deer medicine has shown up for us today.

Sage: I love deer medicine, and it totally probably has to do with something with intuition.

I will say one time Kristin came into our mastermind, which I changed the name. It's now called  The Biz Womb - Where Business Are Birthed And ReBirthed.

Jen: Oh, no, I know that I know the name yet.

Sage: Yeah, and so I'm excited because Kristen came in. This is the third round I’m running the mastermind. She came into the first round and she did a session for everybody. And I kid you not., I did the session with her, and I got in my car and drove to San Diego.  I got to my Airbnb and I opened the back door and sitting on the coffee table... I have chills thinking about it. Sitting on coffee table in the room was a hawk.

A hawk inside, and hawks are all about intuition and perspective and all these things. And it was just like the hawk looked at me and really wanted out. And I have to say, my first instinct was to try and take a picture and I was like, “Oh, I feel the distress of this Hawk.” And so I left the back door open, and I walked out. And I went to go open the front door so it hd two ways to exit, but it had already flown out. It was the wildest experience.

Jen:  That’s amazing.A second deer just showed up and literally just put its face at my window. So I don't know what's happening. That's amazing.

One of the things I want to wrap up with is how to be a bold-faced lover of failure and a bold-faced lover of wins.

Sage: Yeah, I love this. So I feel like there's this quote where they say “You never win or lose. There's always a lesson in everything. Something like that. I'm getting it wrong. 

Jen: Either you’re winning or youre learning or something like that?

Sage: Yes! Yeah, exactly like that. 

So that's the idea of loving your failures as long as you get the lesson. Just to go back to the Facebook ads example. My team had put 500 dollars into it, my launch manager, and I'll be honest, she was upset that she couldn't get the result that she wanted from it because she had done it for someone else and the result had come that they had expected. And I was just like, “Girl, it's all good. Let's get an expert on the line with us, Latasha Booth, and let's get the lessons from it.

And literally, we turned the ads off yesterday.

Latasha came on for 15 minutes, and I was like, “Look, we learned. We know what to do next time, and I'm going to do the things that are working properly.

So your ability to love up on failure and get the lesson from it is so important. And then also your ability to celebrate the winds when they happen instead of hiding from them. You're so excited to promote this thing that you have that you want to sell and then it sells and if you go quiet, you haven't fully honored the thing that just came to you.

Jen: That’s a nice point.

Sage: Yeah.

So I always tell people, celebrate, celebrate if you didn't get the job, celebrate. If you did get the job, celebrate them equally. They're equally important. So why wouldn’t you? 

Jen: The other thing that I think entrepreneurs do, that I certainly do, is I achieved the thing, and I don’t necessarily go quiet, but I go on to the next thing.

Sage: Yeah. You get a pause, right?

Even if it's in an ideal world, I would have you truly celebrate it. Post about it on social media. Let your community know how exciting you are for it. Celebrate that person, promote them, do all these beautiful things. But if for whatever reason that week, you really don't have time for that, truly don't have time for that, because I don’t know the capital is being rushed or something weird is going on. I do encourage you to least take three breaths around it. Just three breaths of fully receiving. 

Abraham Hicks is someone that I adore and listen to on YouTube. You can search them if you want, and they don't align with everybody's beliefs and values. So just know that they are channeling a spirit. So whether or not you can discern whether or not that's for you. But that being said, I love them because they talked about 16 seconds of pure positive energy. 

Really good example. I was just in Palm Springs, and honestly, we stayed at this hotel right after New Years because we knew nobody would be there. And sure enough, we got there. The place was empty. So even though I rented one room, I had this entire compound and I asked them, I said, “Well, what do you rent the whole place for? If we ever wanted to do an event here?”  And they said it'd be Jen:30,000. So I felt like I was getting this 30,000 dollars experience. 

Jen: Super cool. I love that perspective. 

Sage: It was amazing. It was so great. And then in the morning, I went on a swim and of course, nobody was there. There's two pools there. And I had the whole pool to myself. And I'm looking at the bottom of the pool. And Polaris means North Star and that's my last name for anybody who doesn't know. And there's this North Star in the bottom of the pool with the moon in the middle of it. And I was going to get out of the pool, and I said “No, give it 16 seconds.” 

And in those 16 seconds I could feel the water more. I could see the birds in the tree. I could hear things more. I noticed more colors around me. It was really fascinating. And it's literally 16 seconds.

Jen: Who takes 16 seconds? Nobody takes 16 seconds.

Sage: But just think about, I'm sure Jen:, you have those moments in your day, like the deer came up to you. That's a moment if we hadn't been talking for you to really soak that. Like look at the color of the fur and pay attention to the way their nose looks in their eyes. So it's really a way to hit record on a moment that, you know, is so special. For me it's like seeing my child laugh. Enjoying cooking a meal. Which is a new thing for me. I stopped cooking That's the whole other story. Those things.

I really encourage people to push pause, record what you're feeling in that moment because you can tap into it anytime, no matter where. 

Jen: Not picking up the phone. But what you would do to take that 15 second little video for your Instagram story, but instead of picking up your phone to do you just do in your mind.

Sage: Yes. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. All of that because our reflex to share it with others, which is sometimes special and sometimes you should just record it in your mind. 

Jen: Yeah, that's so good. Sage, you have given us so much goals today, not just on Facebook ads, but just so much about intentional business development and mindset for entrepreneurs and going a bit deeper, not just mindset, but like, really talking about what's happening in our subconscious. I don't even know how I'm going to break down this interview because I like there's three interviews in this interview, so I'm very grateful for all of the deep diving that you did with me today. This was really fun for me.

I hope it’s fun for my audience and I hope you enjoyed it too. 

Sage: Oh, Yeah. It's my pleasure. And can I mention a free gift that I wanted to give to them? 

Jen: Yes, I was just going to ask you. 

So the thing is, if you want to get into Sage’s orbit, it's very easy. I just want to tell you, how do you get into Sage Polaris’ orbit.

Sage: I love it. I mean I’m Sage Polaris on everything, Facebook and Instagram, and I'm the one who responds to my DMs so we can have a conversation there. And then in terms of the gift for your audience, if you go to , you will find the Triple E-mail Open Rates, which is a script that I give away everywhere I because it's the most important thing you can do for your business.

It's three emails to send to your email list. All you have to do is copy, paste and personalize it. And honestly, if you've been in business a long time, you're going to love this because you can scrub your list and take off subscribers who are taking up real estate but aren't actually opening your stuff, which will help your email deliverability. And if you're relatively new to business and you ghosted your list, which so many of us, I am raising my hand here included. There are times where we go quiet with our list. This will get the conversation started again, which is so special for you to love up on your community in that way.

So that is my gift for everyone.

Jen: Thank you so much for personalizing that for us.  And my last question is, you talk a bit about your mastermind that's coming up? So the Biz Womb earlier, where businesses are birds and rebirthed, the main tagline for it. It's six months, and the main tagline has come home to yourself by working less and making more. I have service providers, course creators, which is nice because they end up hiring each other and we have some product based businesses. So I'm that rare bird that kind of teaches all three communities, but you'll essentially get access to all of the templates that I've developed over the last six years. Plus hot seats for specific business questions that you need answered. And then also we do copy hot seats. So I do live edits in your copy. 

Sage: People love that. 

Jen: Yeah.

Sage: And we have a tech expert. Her name is Ariel Hail. She comes in and, oh, my goodness....

The way this woman knows how to work systems between your platforms, making sure they're talking to each other. We do live like, if you need to clean up your Dubsado, she helps with that. So kind of touch on all the different areas. And it's a special community. I’m so excited.

Jen: You said it's for businesses that are to be birthed or rebirth. So are these women at the beginning of their journey or who's a ideal person for this mastermind?

Sage: Actually, we have most of the women have gotten to, like, $10K months on occasion, but they really want to be at consistent +$20K months. And by the end of the program most women are making between 20 and 50 K a month. Yeah, it's incredible.

And, look, I promise business and soul growth, because I want to gaslight anyone. For some of you who come into the group, it's like you're ready for putting the SOPs in place. You have all those things. It's just taking your delivery to the next level. And the planning tools are exactly what you need. Whereas some people in the group, they need more of the soul growth. They need to stop burning themselves out because they have worked way too hard to get where they're at. And so I helped them get that peace of mind they wish their business would have brought them from the beginning.

I wouldn't say we have any brand new business owners. Occasionally, one slips in.  But more often than not, it's more established business owners.

Jen: Yeah, that makes sense. That’s great. 

I just can't thank you enough for this fun conversation. And I literally just could pick your brain all day long. But I love the depth of what you're talking about. And I that you always come from a -this is what's right for me, it might not be right for you. And it just always feels very heart centered. So I appreciate every email I get. Every post I see. Every invitation I get from you is always very heart centered so thank you for that. 

Sage: Oh, my absolute pleasure. I was so excited to have a conversation with you because we have been in each other’s orbit. And I love what you do as well. So, I’m excited to be a part of the The Idea Space Community. 

Jen: Thank you so much. 

Sage: Yeah, my pleasure. 

Jen: If you’re interested in learning about Sage’s program, go to . And don’t forget she has that free gift for us. They literally cut paste and personalize them a little bit. But you can literally get your email list to re engage with you and get them to start opening your stuff. 

So thank you Sage. I appreciate you. 

Sage: I’m so excited. , 

Jen: And thank you to everyone who came and played with us today. 

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