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Full Transcript

Jen Liddy

Welcome to this week's episode of Content Creation Made Easy. I'm really glad that you are here specifically because my guest today is Jennifer Sherwood, and she is somebody who deals with women who are just over it. And I think that you're going to really see yourself in our conversation today. 

And I've invited Jen for a couple of reasons. She's an expert. She's a life coach. She's a client. But she really works with women who feel over all of the things that they're doing. The overthinking, the overdoing, the over-proving the over efforting. And in life, we are doing that. And for sure, we're also doing it in our business and we're doing it on our content. So Jen and I are going to talk today about this idea of overdoing.

 And Jen has this special flare that she puts on everything because she is a recovering people pleaser and perfectionist. So she totally gets it. And now that she's a certified life coach and she has been for years, she also leads women's groups and retreats. She's really good at narrowing down and focusing on how to help us all go beyond the right now and look to what's possible and create a life that we're not just tolerating. And you're going to hear Jen talk about that today. 

So, Jen, I just want to say thanks for coming on. I think this is a topic that we all need to be talking about a lot more. And I appreciate your time and expertise. How are you?

Jennifer Sherwood

I'm great, Jen. Thanks for having me. I was physically trying to restrain myself from going. “Uh-huh! Uh-huh! Uh-huh!” to everything that you were saying

Jen Liddy

That's good content. Yeah.

Jennifer Sherwood

I mean, it's just where I lived, where my clients live. And I just think it's such an important topic because it just gets in our way, this over proving this overthinking. So as you can tell, I'm excited to talk to you today.

Jen Liddy

Let's talk a little bit about your past and your background. How did you fall into this work and this lane of your work? Because everybody knows what a life coach is, but you've gotten into a very specific niche here.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah. How much time do we have? I'm kidding. 

So as you mentioned, I'm a recovering people pleasing perfectionist and trying to sort of narrow this down. What really happened for me is when my kids were born…

I would never have called myself a perfectionist. I didn't get straight A's. I don't have a super organized house. But when I think of a perfectionist, it's that person who thinks everything has to be exactly right and beats the crap out of themselves when they don't do that. And I may have had some of that. I probably had some of that before my kids were born. But when they were born, it ramped up in such a huge, ferocious way. And when I look back now, I actually had the life that I wanted, but I couldn't see it because I was so buried under this dictator telling me what motherhood should look like in every facet of my life. 

What being a wife, what being a career woman, all the aspects of my life, what it should look like. And so I was constantly running, trying to meet these expectations, which side note, I was the one creating these unrealistic expectations.

Jen Liddy

It was the monster. It wasn't an external force. It was you right?

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah. But I didn't know it. And so I was just really unhappy because I could never get to that place of perfection. 

And so it just sapped all the joy out of my life at a time that could have been really good. And then how I ended up here was I finally got to the point. I love to say it like this too when I just got sick and tired of being sick and tired and I decided to find some help. 

And simultaneously I was kind of getting burnt out in my career. My previous career as a Pediatric Audiologist, that's hearing science. I was the representative for a statewide program here in California. And there were some things I really loved about my job. Writing, teaching, and speaking. I would go across the country and talk about our program, but audiology is a very narrow field. So what else could I do? And then coaching somehow came into my awareness. It had all those elements. I liked writing, teaching, speaking. Also, audiology was very service-based. It was something that I could feel really proud of, that I was making a difference. Coaching absolutely fills that same role for me. 

So I just decided I should hire a coach. And I did. And she rocked my world. 

And that's when I decided this is what I want to do for other women. I don't want another woman to suffer the way that I did. And so that's how I ended up in this very narrow lane of really focusing on those “shoulds”, because I lived it. I get it, I understand it.

Jen Liddy

I don't know if you're going to have a quick answer, but when you look back at those times when you were “shoulding” all over yourself really hard and this is the type of mom I should be, how I should keep my house, how I should do my job, how I should be a wife, maybe even how I should be a friend or a sister or daughter, I think it bleeds into everything. And you look back, do you feel regret? What is the feeling that you have of those times? How do you look back on version one of Jen?

Jennifer Sherwood

I'd love to say that I'm so enlightened that I'm passed it. I've integrated it. The truth is, there is regret. I wish I could go back and redo those younger years with my kids and enjoy it more. 

But at the same time, maybe this is my enlightened side coming through. I wouldn't be who I am today. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today. So in some ways, I'm grateful for that experience. And I have two daughters. They watched me at a really low point, and they watched me pull myself out of it and create a business. And that feels pretty powerful. 

So, yes, in some ways, I wish I could do it differently. And no, because I wouldn't be where I am.

Jen Liddy

Alright, bravo to that answer! I like that answer. A-plus for you. 

So one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today is I really think that you've done a great job in owning this part of your personality and talking about it freely without any shame or embarrassment. And I think this gives other people the permission needed to say, “Oh, my God, I do this, too.”

Because if you say to somebody, you're a people pleaser or you're a perfectionist, those feel very judgmental, those feel like fighting words. Right? And when you and I started working together, you were kind of raging against this idea of calling your people, people pleasers because you're like “They don't want to be called that!” 

And so I think by you owning it, it gives other people permission to say, maybe I do that, too, and maybe that's just part of who I am and it's not something to judge, but it's exhausting me.

Jennifer Sherwood

Oh, that's so interesting. I hadn't thought about it like that. So thank you for sharing that. ut it is true what you're saying. 

When we see people really owning something, it just makes it easier. And also, let's take it out of the closet, so to speak. When we're talking about shame. I didn't want people to know I was a people pleaser back then. I was just doing it. Frankly, I didn't know I was a people pleaser, but I was just doing it. If someone had said the term, I probably would have been offended. And so I think this is where it comes from is that I'm not offended by it anymore. It was a part of me. 

And frankly, if we could talk about people-pleasing for a second, this might be a little tangential, but there is something really beautiful about being a caretaker. And I actually think it's one of my strengths. I think it's one of my good qualities. But when I take it to the extreme of people-pleasing, that's when it's bad for me. But if I can sort of rein that back in, into giving from a place of genuine desire and love, it's a really beautiful gift to be able to give to people.

 

And so that's almost like me reclaiming that side of myself. Can I have people-pleaser tendencies now? Sure, 100%. But am I aware of it, and can I bring it back in much more quickly than I used to? Absolutely. 

So now I see it, I work with it, and I'm really proud of the fact that I take really good care of my people.

Jen Liddy

I love the little distinction there. It's a nuance. Right. And I think the most important thing you said there was, when it goes into people-pleasing, I've moved away from just the caretaking it now I'm almost self herding.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah. Because I'm shoulding again. All roads lead to should.

But when I'm shoulding, when I'm like… I can't think of a specific example. But if there's something going on in my family and, oh, I should do this, but I don't want to, or it's going to be a big cost to me and I do it anyway. That's when I've crossed the line.

Jen Liddy

Yeah. That's such a good awareness. 

Let's talk about how this shows up in your life as an entrepreneur, especially as an entrepreneur who creates content. When you and I started working, that's what we work on with you. It's like your marketing, your content, your messaging, all of that stuff. We didn't do any life coaching. I mean, sometimes coaching comes in, but mostly we're talking about your business when we talk. How does everything that you've just laid out for us show up as your life as an entrepreneur?

Jennifer Sherwood

Oh, my gosh. Honestly, it can be everywhere. What I should be doing for business, how I should be showing up. As my coach, Jen, knows, I still have resistance to certain things. And some of that might just be honestly fear of putting myself out and that's what we work through. 

I'll give you an example. Just the other day, I was talking with a fellow entrepreneur who was giving me the latest demographics on TikTok. And I thought for a second, “Oh, man, now I'm going to have to get on TikTok. I don't want to get on TikTok. I don't want to do short videos. It's not my jam. It's just not my thing.” But initially I would be thinking, “Oh, I should do that. Oh, I have to do that.” And this avenue and Instagram and LinkedIn and 700 different ways of being online. It's exhausting and overwhelming.

 And I don't even enjoy to be totally honest, I don't even enjoy creating the social media posts. And so now I'm at the point where, having worked with you, I can say I think I create relevant content for my audience. I think it's engaging. They're engaging. And I let my VA create my social media. I don't want to do that. And so now I've gotten to the point where I hire that out. So it's happening for me, but I'm not shooting all over myself about what I should be creating and all the videos I should be doing. I'm working in the area where my strength is.

Jen Liddy 

Yeah. That was really hard for you to come to. So inside the Mastermind, I want to talk a little bit about the work that you've done. Can you talk to us about the shoulding that was happening when you came to the Content Creator's Mastermind, and what was going on in your brain? I don't know if you can remember back when you started, but because where you are now is so different from there. But back when we started in the Mastermind program, how were you shoulding all over yourself there?

Jennifer Sherwood

Oh, that's such a good question. And I have to think about that for a second in terms of the group. But while I'm thinking about it, the one thing I do want to say, emphatically is my business would not be where it is had I not joined the Mastermind group. I know that hands down 100% because you have this beautiful way of trimming the fat and really narrowing things down. 

So Jen talks about repurposing content. And when I go back to old stuff that I wrote because I'm thinking I'll save myself a little time, I can't trim the fat out of those suckers. They're so fatty and they don't have that same target, I guess is the right word. I keep seeing sort of this narrow focus. They don't have that same focus.

Oh, I know how I was shoulding. I know when I started with you, “I should know my client inside and out. I should know her languaging.” 

There were times when you would ask me, “Well, does your client say that thing?” And I would think, “I don't know.” And I don't want to say that I don't know because I didn't want to look like a dummy who didn't know her business. This was the kind of thing you can hear my inner critic, right? She still lives and breathes. 

And that has just gotten better because I do know her, even though some days I try to convince Jen I don't and I fight and I resist. But we've gotten so far in who I work with. The woman I worked with hasn't changed. It's just how I talk about her and how I think we hit her with the messages in a more concise way.

Jen Liddy

In a more relevant way that she can actually hear it. Right?

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah. But I do think that's what it was about saying, “I should know her. I should be able to articulate these things.”

Jen Liddy

The other thing I think you used to think you should do is tell everybody everything they needed to hear and try to fix all of their problems with your content.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yes. How can I leave them hanging? How can I tell them about their problem and not solve it for them? That is hard for someone who's like me and I would imagine others heart-centered entrepreneurs. We do want to fix everybody. But Jen has really helped me figure out how to give good value. I am giving good value in my content and I'm not giving everything away. Right?

Jen Liddy

Yes, you do both. So we can all honor how far you've come and how far you've come to help yourself, but also help your clients. Let's talk about how in general, we can learn from everything you know about this “should-ing”. What can we start to do to help ourselves move away from the shoulds? So my audience, if you're listening to this, you are here because you're an entrepreneur or you create content in some form. You're marketing in some way. We're trying to make it easier for you. And not shoulding all of yourself is a really important part of that. So I'm really glad that you're here to talk about this specifically. Give us the basics. What the hell do we need to do to move away from the shoulds?

Jennifer Sherwood

So first, I just want to say if you're shoulding all over yourself, that's a very obligatory feeling. And when you think about obligation, it's really heavy and it's hard to create and move forward and enjoy what you're doing from that place. So that's the first thing I would say is start noticing that. 

When do you feel like,” Ugh, I don't want to do that”? 

Jen Liddy

In your breathing? 

Jennifer Sherwood

Yes. You can't breathe, your shoulders are tight, your chest. Just start noticing that. That's the first step to anything. And what is it that you actually like to do? And maybe start moving into that arena and see what happens. Because when we're doing things, we enjoy it more. It flows more freely. I'm almost imagining when we're should-ing that we're pushing this boulder. “Okay, here's some content. I'm going to create it up the hill”, and then you need a two-hour nap when you're done because you've just exhausted yourself versus here's what I actually like to do. And I'm not going to listen to all the noise about all these other things that are buzzing my brain and taking all my mental energy about how I should be on TikTok because it's the newest thing.

If you don't like being on TikTok, don't do it. Don't do it. Just do what feels good for you.

Jen Liddy

You're somebody who for your whole life has been people-pleasing, being a perfectionist, like having that really heavy energy. Is it hard to answer the question, “What do I like to do?”

Jennifer Sherwood

Yes.

Jen Liddy

Okay. So, what do you do about that? 

Jennifer Sherwood

Well, I think it goes back to that feeling in the body, like that really heavy feeling. And if there's stuff that you like to do, it's going to feel differently. And I would just move towards that, 

Jen Liddy

Like different energetics? 

Jennifer Sherwood

Yes. How you're feeling in it. And then also there is that difference, too, between fear and shoulding. And so there's this great tool you can use, let's say you're considering the TikTok and imagine you're standing on a high dive and you're looking down. This is the TikTok jump, right? You're going to jump into it. What's down there to you? Does it really feel more like a pool of sludge or does it feel like when you jump, you're going to hit a cold, refreshing pool of water and that's really going to help? What does it actually feel like? We want to jump into the water. We don't want to jump into the sludge. 

So use that. Like, is it just fear? Do you know when you jump off the diving board or do you sense that you're really going to be happy that you did it and then it's going to feel really good versus, “Oh, no, I'm further in the muck than I was before?”

So that may help differentiate the fear. And it may be just trying some things. Facebook Live or whatever your fear is to see if you can get through that and then if it really still feels like a lousy should, you know.

Jen Liddy

I have the perfectionist thing. I don't have a huge amount of the people-pleasing thing or the shoulding thing. So some of my questions are truly coming from I don't have that people-pleasing thing. 

When you are doing the people-pleasing and you're exhausted by all of the things, would it help to get rid of some things? Does that give you more energy? Does that maybe open you up to answering the question, what do I like to do? Are you often, like, energetically weighted down by all the shit that you're doing, or does it actually feel really good and it just fills you up?

Jennifer Sherwood

No, it weighs you down. If you're doing a bunch of stuff from the energy of people-pleasing and if you can get rid of it…

I'll give you an exact example. Jen reached out to me yesterday to see if I could move a meeting. And I had this like, “Ugh. I'm going to miss the meeting because I'm taking my mom to a doctor's appointment.” And all I could imagine for a nanosecond was “ Ugh. I really want to go to the meeting. I want it to work out. I'll call the doctor, I'll reschedule.” And then I went, wait a second, I have a sister who I texted who immediately responded back, said, “Sure, I can do it.” And that was it. 

So, yes, if you can hand stuff off, because the problem with people, pleasing perfectionists is we think we are the only ones who can do it all.

Jen Liddy

This blows my mind because I've had this conversation. And when we understand that, we think we're the only ones who can do it, because I have that too, as a perfectionist. It's so egoic.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yes.

Jen Liddy

Oh, I'm so big and important. Nobody else could take care of this problem.

Jennifer Sherwood

I mean, obviously, we're not thinking like that, but it's more like “This is what I do and I don't think about anybody else can do it. I have to do it”. And so, yeah, that's a perfect example of just, like, literally picking up the phone and the text coming right back, “Sure, I can do it.”

Jen Liddy

That's amazing. I’m so happy for you.

So let's talk about how all of this actually impacts our productivity as entrepreneurs and content creators and marketers and all and just like living our lives. But the focus of this podcast is always content creation and marketing. But this stuff, how does it impact your productivity in general?

Jennifer Sherwood

So I'm very reticent to do things I don't want to do. There are some things I've decided that are important to the business that I don't…

It's funny. It's almost like this little war in my head between I don't like doing Facebook Live and yet I really enjoy teaching. So I think there's a little bit of bullshit still at play in there. But if there's something I don't want to do, I'm very much in resistance to it. And then it just gets bigger because I'm like, “Oh crap, I got to do that thing. Oh yeah, I got to do that thing.” I'm should-ing all over myself and I'm making it so much worse because I'm thinking about the thing that I need to do that I haven't done, that I forgot to do. Oh, now I forgot. So now I have to rush it. 

So not only am I not getting it done, I'm taking up all this mental energy thinking about what I didn't get done. And then sometimes, to be honest, the quality of it isn't so good because I've rushed it at the very end. And so I can imagine other entrepreneurs are feeling the same way.

If there's some fear, if there's something new, if they're just not excited about something, it's going to be the thing that keeps getting. It's like the snooze alarm. It's the thing that's going to keep getting snoozed and then we feel like we're not getting anywhere in our business.

Jen Liddy

When you said and then the quality isn't there, I can imagine that that only inflames your perfectionism. So then the next time it just gets worse, right? Yeah.

Jennifer Sherwood

And then you're mad at yourself. I haven't really thought about it until we're it's this whole cycle. So then I'm mad at myself that I didn't do what I needed to do. It just all feeds on each other.

Jen Liddy

So let's talk about for you as a recovering people-pleasing perfectionist, what have you put in place specifically when it comes to your content and your marketing besides having your VA doing your social media. What have you done to kind of alleviate this trouble for yourself?

Jennifer Sherwood

Well, I would say the first thing around content, but also other areas of my life, as well as I, have support. And so I think really having the Mastermind has been huge. Being able to come in and have you edit and review my stuff, that's super helpful. And then the support. There are days when the support looks like, here's my document, give me some feedback, I'm a freaking mess. And that's how I'm showing up today.

And I want to share with your listeners what support does for you, because the Mastermind call that we had before last, was my moment to show up and just be like, I'm a mess. And the beauty of that moment was every woman in the room said, “I know what you're going through.” Those were the literal words. I've been there. I felt it, and it just felt like a breath of fresh air, like I could exhale because I think my perfectionist was kicking up a little bit. Like, nobody else goes through this. Why are you falling apart? 

So support, I think, is huge. And I don't mean this to be a commercial for Jen, but it is because it's been so helpful having your input and having your support and the support of the women.

I would say that's the first thing, but then also using some of the techniques that you really talk about, too, about batching and trying to get stuff done in advance. And that's really helpful for me because my natural tendency is to fly by the seat of my pants, and I don't like it. So having things a little more structured for myself makes a big difference in hitting my goals. I send an email every single week. I never used to do that consistently. I don't miss it. We've added a second one in I do an interview series. Like, there's so much more that I'm managing now, and it honestly doesn't feel like that much more because you have systems.

Jen Liddy

And I remember when we first started working together, you were like, no, I don't like planning. Planning is not my thing. I know I need planning, but planning is not my thing.

But we make a plan and we make a strategy for you that really is personalized to you, and that's why it's working. And I love that you're just acknowledged I started with not sending an email and then sending one once a week. And then I added in this other thing, and I added in this other thing, and it actually gets easier. I think that's hard for highly creative women to believe that they actually could do more, and it really doesn't require that much more of you.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah. And I think also working with you and honing in on who my client is and how she views things have made it easier. It's not that hard for me to sit down and create an email every week.

Jen Liddy

That's a great point because you really nailed down your messaging. So it's both the systems and the messaging that it all just feels a lot easier now. It's not just as energetically depleting as it was.

Jennifer Sherwood 

Correct. I  like that.

Jen Liddy

Okay. So for people who are feeling exhausted by their people-pleasing and they're shoulding and they're overthinking and they're overdoing, we're talking about who can support you, right? Like, really asking for some support. But the first thing I heard you say is like, let's admit it. Let's talk about it honestly.

Jennifer Sherwood

Let's acknowledge it. Yeah.

Jen Liddy

The jig is up, right?

Jennifer Sherwood

You are a people pleaser, my friend. And that doesn't make you a horrible person or you are a perfectionist. And what I want to say is, not only does it not make you a horrible person, it makes you normal. There are so many of us out there. I'm so envious of Jen. I wish I could pluck that DNA out where she's not a people pleaser and pop it in.

Jen Liddy

I have plenty of other bullshit.

Jennifer Sherwood

We all have it. But I guess that's the point is there's nothing wrong with you. It's just how you have created your own systems over time, and we don't have time to get into the protective mechanism of that whole thing, but that's really where it came from, so. Okay, you don't need that anymore. And let's figure out how to move through it. 

Jen Liddy

I love this. I call these little aspects of like, my husband will be like, he'll call me out on something, and I'm like…

“You're so crabby!” he'll say, “You're so crabby after you do X, Y, and Z.”

I'm like, that's one of my features. It's just part of my personality. It's a feature of mine. And some of the features are good and some of them are buggy, but we have to create ways to work around them. And you have done that when it comes to the people-pleasing and perfectionism and the overdoing. Right? Overdoing is a big thing.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah. I got to say this. I can't stop laughing. In my head, I'm imagining the sticker on the window of a car with all the features laid out. So here's Jen Liddy, and it's like, how many miles per gallon and crabby! 

Jen Liddy

Right, crabby when she doesn't eat. Yeah.

Jennifer Sherwood

When you go to yoga, it's not one thing you like.

Jen Liddy

He’ll say “You're just so much nicer when you actually go to yoga.” 

That's a feature. Okay, I will say.

Jennifer Sherwood

So coming back to the support piece, I want to encourage people to be choosy about your support system. Jen and I were talking off-camera about friends who aren't as there for you as others. Can we say it like that? Yeah. 

When you reach out for support. Brené Brown, I love this quote from her, says, I can't remember the exact quote, but basically, you get to decide who hears your story because your story is precious and there are vulnerabilities in it. And so if you're reaching out for support, it may take a couple of tries to figure out who the right person is, but find somebody who actually supports you. Who isn't going to derail the conversation off into, “Oh, you think that's bad? Let me tell you this.” Yeah.

Jen Liddy

I love that. So you've given us a lot of good, juicy things to get us started with acknowledging the stuff that's depleting us, the overdoing, getting support, having systems that work for us in place! 

Is there anything else that can help us shift out of our shoulding?

Jennifer Sherwood

Well, I actually have something I put together, and I'd love to offer it to your listeners called “Three Simple Steps To Go From Overwhelmed To Ease”. Because even when you say it out loud, just when you say the word ease, it's like so these three steps, I'm not joking in the title. They're so simple and they're so small and they're so implementable. 

And the very first one we've already been talking about. Becoming aware of when this is happening to yourself because you can't change anything if you don't recognize what's going on. 

I mean, in my story for years, I was just grinding through the day trying to feel better. But until I really acknowledged what was going on, I couldn't change anything. And so I would love to offer this to your listeners. If they're just looking for something. 

This is not a big commitment, friends. It's three really short, simple videos because I know our attention span is short and our time is I don't want to say we're busy because I don't want to add to the overwhelm, but we are. So three simple, short videos in less than, I think, a total of everything in less than 20 minutes you'll know all three steps

Jen Liddy

How do people grab it? 

Jennifer Sherwood

So you can go to my website? JenniferSherwood.com, I was going to give you a different site. It's on the home page. Yeah, you can sign up right there.

Jen Liddy

 Is there anything else that we need to know from your expertise? Because I know that you literally… this is your life's work. You are working like in your chapter two here with your kids being gone and growing your business. This is your life's work now.

Working with women who really identify with everything we're talking about today. Is there anything else that you want to add to the conversation you feel like people really love knowing?

Jennifer Sherwood

I think I want to go back and just really emphasize if you recognize yourself in this, there is nothing wrong with you. We live in a patriarchal society, and the undercurrent in this culture is that the value that women bring to things is what they can do for others and how they look. And we've been fighting against this our whole lives, whether we realize it or not. 

So I really want you to see that you were set up to take care of other people. That's the people-pleasing part of it. And we've often been pitted women against each other. It feels very competitive. So of course, you're trying to be a perfectionist. There's nothing wrong with you. I really just want to acknowledge that. And then once you know that, let that stuff go in your business and go get what you want. We become entrepreneurs because we have huge desires and dreams. So let's go get it.

Jen Liddy

So how do you support people? I know that you do one-to-one coaching with women. But I know that you also have a group program, which is a great place for a lot of people to get started if they're looking for community and safety as they work through this. Okay. So can you tell us about The GC?

Jennifer Sherwood

Yes, I'd love to. So this is my monthly membership program, and it's really built on the foundation of community and connection. And if we go back to that point, I brought up about women having been pit against each other. We all know the stories growing up like you couldn't trust other girls, and then that manifests itself as women. And enough of that.

What we've created inside The GC is this really strong community. We have shared agreements on confidentiality, which really creates a safe space. There is no judgment. You do not share in that group and get a little side-eye from somebody or worry that any of your story will be fodder for conversation somewhere else. We're very tight-knit in there, and it's just a really warm place to land. 

In addition, I bring coaching tools every month so you can get support. You can get community. You can get, like, real genuine girlfriends talking about support. This is where you can find it. And I will bring tools to help you up-level your life in that group. I love it. I love being in there. I love being in the space. And Jen coined this phrase. She said something to the effect of, like, it's the warmest, safest corner on the Internet is really what it feels like.

Jen Liddy

I'll tell you, that is not easy to find. And I bet people listening are feeling like that's a breath of fresh air because how many times are you at somebody's table or their counter or their island and you've said something and you feel like if you leave the room, you're now the topic of conversation or the next morning you wake up and you have a total vulnerability hangover.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah, we really work in that group, so that's not the case. It's just not. It's so lovely in there. I do say so myself.

Jen Liddy

I love that you are so proud of it because that is really hard for you as a people pleaser too, like, state your pride. Right? 

Jennifer Sherwood

No, but you're right. Thank you.

Jen Liddy

Yeah. It’s been amazing to watch you. 

Jennifer Sherwood

Thank you. Can I also say just one more thing about The GC that may be really appealing to entrepreneurs? On top of all the support, we also have coworking days in there. We have guest speakers. We have book groups. It's all a big buffet. Come and take what you want. You don't have to take everything. But the coworking days are so helpful. I know you do that as well. And it's so nice. We do a three-hour block.

Jen Liddy

Nice.

Jennifer Sherwood

It's like twice a quarter. We do that and we get tons of stuff done. 

Jen Liddy

Nice. Jen, thank you for your expertise and for talking about this. I think it's a vital topic in life in general but also specifically for entrepreneurs who are trying to create marketing content in a world where you're constantly being compared or comparing yourself and everything is so visual, right? 

So if you don't look like everybody else or sound like everybody else, you're not perfect. You were saying that it's not good enough to put it out there and I think that people trip over that and I'm hoping that the tools and again, they're simple tools. It's almost embarrassingly simple once we figure it out. Right?

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah.

Jen Liddy

These tools can really help us stop tripping over our old patterns.

Jennifer Sherwood

Yeah, for sure. And I'm so glad you just said the word comparison because that didn't come up today, which it is definitely a central part of shoulding and perfection. 

So please, this is a vital piece for us and it will happen. But if we find ourselves comparing ourselves, can we please climb out of the rabbit hole because it's not doing any of us any good. So thank you for bringing that up.

Jen Liddy

Yeah, Jen, thank you for your expertise. Remember that you can grab Jen's great little freebie that you can take in little bite size Nuggets which is called “Three Simple Steps To Go From Overwhelm To Ease” and let you take a breath. You just go to https://www.jennifersherwood.com/  and it'll be right there for you. And if you want to know more about The GC, you can get everything about Jen right there on her website which we have just recently overhauled and it looks so beautiful and I’m so proud of her.

Jennifer Sherwood

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me as a guest. This was so much fun. I really liked it.

Jen Liddy

And thank you to my listener. Thank you for coming because I know there's a lot of choices out there about podcasts to listen to and so thanks for choosing this one. I hope you got a lot out of it today. Bye, everybody.

Jennifer Sherwood

Bye. Thanks.