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What About Your Lead Magnet? with Claudia Schalkx

marketing fridays with claudia
Is a lead magnet necessary? I mean - do they EVEN WORK?
 
Have you tried to create lead magnets, opt-ins, freebies -
 
WHATEVER you want to call it -
 
And gotten no traction?
 
Yeah, welcome to the club! Today Claudia Schalkx, marketing expert, & I are talking about what makes a GREAT lead magnet...
 
and what to AVOID -
 
and how to figure out if yours is working (and what to do if it isn't!)
 
If you'd like to connect with Claudia, be sure to check out  Bridge2MORE!

Watch The Full Interview! 


 

Full Transcript 

Jen Liddy

Whether you have something called a lead magnet, a freebie, an opt-in, a free source, an ethical bribe - whatever you want to call it.

This is a topic that entrepreneurs deal with quite a bit. And Claudia and I will talk today about lead magnets of why you need one, do you need one, and what kind you need. If you have done a lead magnet in the past, and it hasn't worked, we'll address that too. We're going to kind of just chit-chat about the all things lead magnet.

Hello, my friend! So I'm gonna be transparent and say I have a lead magnet that works now and is really bringing you the right kinds of people to my list, but for years, I had no good lead magnet. How about you?

Claudia Schalkx

Well, I had a lot of technical problems, setting it up with mailing service and all that stuff. And then I got discouraged. But I was reviewing it these days, and I was like, this is really good. People are going to really benefit from it. So, talking about ethical bribes, I need to put it out in the world.

Jen Liddy

So when we are looking at our clients, lead magnets, what are some of the problems you see with people's opt-ins or lead magnets? We'll just call them lead magnets today.

Claudia Schalkx

Okay, what I see is they don't know what makes a good lead magnet.

That's the first question. So either do things that are too long and too complicated, that are not good for a lead magnet? Or they just start to brainstorm with themselves about the idea and they don't do anything - that's the two biggest things that I see.

Jen Liddy

They spend too much time, you mean, like, wondering the ideas and working the ideas rather than taking action? Yeah, I see that all the time too.

The other thing I see, besides being overly complicated, they usually want a lead magnet that meets their audience several steps down the line from really where their audience is, or really what their audience needs.

Claudia Schalkx

That is a problem with not knowing where your audience is and the real pains of your audience and their customer journey.

We don't know where in the customer journey the customer is in relation to us - we don't know. So they can be at any point they consume everything and don't interact, then all of a sudden they come and say to you "Afternoon, I've been following you for years."

That is one thing, and what you say, we tend to overcomplicate it. So we need to think, what is the first thing the audience needs to do to solve the problem that they can do by themselves and make some progress by themselves. Because one thing the lead magnets have a very bad reputation. This resource has been abused, re abused, abused, once again, and it's tremendously misunderstood.

Everybody puts something out there to fish for your email, and then you get all these crappy newsletters and things that really don't serve anybody. On the one hand, it has a bad reputation, so people are very hesitant about giving you their email, and you need to make sure that you are giving them the right thing and that they understand what it is from the beginning.

Jen Liddy

Right.

I think the other thing about lead magnets is that people have learned to distrust themselves when it comes to lead magnets because how many lead magnets have you downloaded throughout being an entrepreneur? And they just sit in the graveyard of your laptop, and you don't use them. You liked the idea of them, or they or they were you downloaded them, and they weren't fluffy, but you kind of distrust yourself like, "Oh, it won't matter because I won't use it anyway."

Claudia Schalkx

Well, that's true.

I think the thing with lead magnets, like with any other marketing tactic, because let's admit it, it's a tactic. It's not a strategy. But if you have a clear marketing strategy, you can see where your lead magnet or any other resource you're putting out there, your podcast, your blog, whatever your free consultation, it has to be part of your marketing strategy. So if you have a lead magnet that is kind of isolated from the rest, it's kind of hanging alone; you have nothing else in your business that pushes it.


Jen Liddy

I want to talk about strategy for a minute because I don't think people really understand the difference between marketing strategy and marketing tactics. So what you're saying is, if you have a lead magnet that just like kind of dangles out there on its own, and doesn't lead them to the next right offer for them, and doesn't work within the framework of your entire system or business, then why are you putting this lead magnet out there, you're gonna get people who are not going to resonate with your messaging at all.

Claudia Schalkx
Exactly, you have to back engineer your lead magnet or your strategy.

So, for instance, in my case, I am somebody who doesn't enjoy social media; you won't see much of me on social media. But I know that my strength is connecting; they get great benefits from talking with me when I talk to people. I am very generous with the conversation. And I enjoy helping them solve something they have been sitting and looking for the solution and not finding it.

Because I know that when I talk to somebody, the conversion happens, my strategy is geared to create those moments. My lead magnet, which is there, but it's not pushed, is a marketing quiz that shows you your strengths and your style, so you know how to be more consistent in marketing. This quiz aligns with my philosophy of needing consistent marketing and doing it in a way that you like. You have to find the marketing that is aligned with who you are.

If you are an introvert, and I suggest that you do speaking opportunities or videos, you're going to hate me, and you're not going to do it. The other way around, if you're an extrovert, and I tell you to do blogs and participate in LinkedIn, those are too slow for an extrovert. You and I are person to person, so you and I are at our best when we are in one-on-one conversations.

You need to find when you shine and when you're at your best and figure out a strategy that helps you to be at your best 100% of the time or 90% of the time. In my case, social media is a support to my strategy is not my strategy. My strategy is creating one-on-one conversations because that's when I convert, and I convert at 90% - that is my conversion rate.

I need to create these conversations, so I back engineer and say, "Okay, what do I need to get people to have these conversations?"

I need to give them something that they understand, makes them hungry for more knowledge, but at the same time, I create the trust that they will be safe when they decide to make the call with me.

Jen Liddy

Okay, so you have to reverse engineer by knowing your own strengths and then creating a strategy from there, and does a lead magnet fit into your strategy?

So that's the first thing. The second thing that I really want to talk about is, does your audience need a lead magnet? Will your audience respond to a lead magnet because not everybody has an audience that will respond to that.


Claudia Schalkx

No, it definitely depends also what stage of business you have.

Like the example you and I discussed recently, if you have a seven-figure business, you're not going to attract somebody with a lead magnet, right? That's a higher-level conversation. And then again, if your targets are high-level managers or CEOs, the lead magnet can be a quest or a download; it has to be something higher level. Like white paper, like an assessment, something that allows them to do their work better or response, a question they have been struggling with, and it's not answered out there.

Jen Liddy

Yeah, the people who are at the six figures and seven-figure level don't have time, so they want a quicker reaction - they want a quicker result for their solution.

People who have more money want to pay for the solution. They don't want to search through the internet to find something, so they're never going to download a freebie. The other thing is when you consider your audience, for example, if your audience is moms of newborns.

They don't have any time - they don't want to sift through a whole PDF or an ebook like maybe they want a quick video or a series of five short videos that they can consume, maybe while they're breastfeeding or something. You really have to consider where your audience is and how to meet them where they are with whatever it is you're offering.


Claudia Schalkx

If you have a higher level, then referral would be your marketing strategy. How to get to these people, and that you become the go-to person for these people. So what would be in place for you is a referral strategy, and our referral strategy starts from the moment people have the first contact with you. That's when you create this experience that people love, and they are willing to talk about you. So yes, referral strategy also doesn't need a freebie; it works differently, so not everybody needs a freebie.

Jen Liddy

Right.

And the other thing is considering what you're selling. So if you're selling only very high end, like luxury coaching, basically say you're like, you know, you have a high-level program that costs a lot of money. Do you need 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of people joining your list? Or would a referral be better for you, who has a more high-quality lead for you, because that person is going to be more likely to buy from you. So I think people sometimes jump into lead magnets thinking I have to have one. But if it doesn't fit into your style, strategy, or audience, it's a huge waste of time for you.


Claudia Schalkx

Yeah, definitely. And you know what, for instance, these CEOs, high-level managers, or people in industries where discretion is paramount, like finance, or medicine, research, that kind of stuff, they are not going to put out a social post. So they want to keep the problem very, very well managed that can be translated and might be interpreted as a weakness. So then again, you know, you need to find ways to reach this audience in a way that they feel safe.

Jen Liddy

Such a good insight too.

So the other thing I want to talk about with freebies is what to actually put in them because we're often promised something in a freebie that is not delivered to us. One of my personal beefs with freebies is when I download a freebie, and I'm immediately sold to.

That's just that's like my preference, I don't want to be sold to - I want to develop relationships, probably because I'm a person to person style, but also so when I have developed my freebie, and the follow up sequence, the welcome sequence, I'm very clear, I say, you know, you will not be sold to, I'm not offering anything except help. You get three emails like I really tried to be transparent about it. And that was important to me, but again, that goes along with my personality.

So my freebie was very much designed around my personality. I wanted people to download something and be able to take an action - like a small action but an action. And so I think that we have to consider when we're creating our own freebies, what is the one little baby step - because they can't do more than a baby step from these freebies?

Claudia Schalkx

Yes, then it becomes overwhelming.

Because freebies tap into a problem you have, it becomes very confrontational with yourself. People who do marketing, the people who work with me, have been following gurus and doing everything the gurus say to no avail, so when you throw your freebie, you kind of rub this in.

It can be counterproductive - so that's why the baby step is so important. Because then they won't feel overwhelmed and feel this is a problem, but I can still do something about it, whether on my own or with somebody help me. In this world where everybody's giving you solutions that might or might not help. If you give them a step that they can act on and get results, you start to grow your trust. Your marketing is a pillar in marketing.

Jen Liddy

Yeah, you're developing trust; that's the biggest one.

You know, I got an email from somebody on my list the other day who said she spent like a week decluttering, her email and she said, you're one of three people that I kept from all of the coaches that I follow because I trust you, you're very transparent, you give value. And then I got another email from somebody saying, I've downloaded your freebie, and I haven't done anything with it yet. But it made me think differently about how I'm approaching content. And that alone was a shift for this person, maybe they haven't outlined it, and they probably need my help, but they're not ready. After downloading my lead magnet, my life cycle for when somebody joins my list is about eight to 12 months. So it really takes a long time for people to develop trust. And so that's another thing to consider when you download your lead magnet. Do you know what the lifecycle is of somebody before they'll commit to actually working with you?

Claudia Schalkx

Well, that is one side. The other side is how urgent is the pain for you to act on it because I became your client within two emails.

Jen Liddy

Yes, you did!

But you know, you were ready. You're a marketer who wanted content help, right? But most people tell themselves, "Oh, this is a pain that I have, but it's not really that important."

So yes, how urgent is the pain that your people are dealing with? That's a great question to ask yourself with the lead magnet.

Claudia Schalkx

I remember downloading your freebie, and I sent you an email like, "This is the specific problem I'm dealing with!"

Down the road, are you going to deal with this problem as well? And you immediately said the real problem you have is that you create too much how-to content. So what I liked was the way that you very quickly could see what my issue with creating content was and that I was putting my energy in the - I wouldn't say the wrong type of content, because how content is useful at some time. Still, if that's the thickest of your content generation, then people will come to you.

But then again, the pain was big for me because that was one of the goals I have for this year, you know, to get a hold of my content creation process. Your freebie came at the right moment for me, and in the customer cycle with you, I was just in awareness. You spotted my problem right away, and it wasn't an automatic email; it was you, and it allowed me to create trust practically immediately.


Jen Liddy

And here we are, having our weekly chit-chats.

The other thing that I want to talk about with lead magnets is I often say, if you can meet your client at step zero before they've taken any action, they're on the awareness journey of their problem.

But what's step zero for them? It's interesting with my people; they think step zero is that they need a process for content, and that's what I give them. I provide them with a solution to frame out their content and plan it for a month, right?

When I start working with them, I back them up a few steps because some foundations are usually holes. So I actually don't meet them at step zero because they don't want step zero - they don't think they need step zero. You know what I mean? So it's really about where does your audience think the solution is?

Claudia Schalkx

Yes, you have to give them what they think they need, and then you can give them what they actually need. When I have my discovery calls, I ask different questions that allow me to diagnose the problem. So in the end, I say, "Okay, the reason why you don't have results is because A, B, C, and D."

That lays out the whole problem for them, and they know where they are, and they know where they need to be. What I give them is a clear path from A to B because they have been walking in circles doing everything the gurus tell them, and they are tired. So the main question is, can somebody tell me what to do to get results without needing to reinvent the wheel or start from zero again?

That is what I do, and that is the question they have. When you have done your buying persona and identified the problem they are dealing with; then it's easy for you to say what is their problem zero, and what are your problems here?

My problems here with them and like you pointed out this differently to see - they are like I'm doing everything the girl said, and I am like, you don't have a buying persona, you don't understand your blind, you don't have a clear message, you're inconsistent.

They're not seeing that that is the problem; what they are seeing is the consequences of the problem. That's it.

You need to see and understand how they describe the problem so that you can jump on that and then make the necessary links.

Jen Liddy

And show them the pieces they may have been missing at the foundation, which I have to say is troublesome for some people. I actually had a conversation with somebody the other day who's like, "Oh, I don't want to redo all of this stuff because I already did my website, and I already have my branding done."

But if it's not working, it's not working, and we have to clean it up.

Claudia Schalkx

This is straying from the topic, but if you're working with somebody who's helping you with your branding and your website, and they don't see these issues, you're like, "Hello, how can you as a branding expert, not see the gaps?"

That's the problem with branding: people focus too much on the external expressions of the branding, which are the logo, the colors, the side, and all that stuff. They do the groundwork, and that's exactly the same problem you have in marketing and content; its people don't do the groundwork.

Jen Liddy

We have that problem with lead magnets too. People will come up with an idea and spend all this time hiring a designer to make a beautiful lead magnet, which doesn't work because they haven't tested it. And they haven't thought about their audience, and they haven't thought about what is driving people to.

So I guess ultimately, what we really want people to take away from when you're designing a lead magnet is to think about, you know, does your audience need a lead magnet? That's the first one and then what are you driving them to? Does it work with the next offer that you're going to give them? And does it solve their perceived problem? I think that's it.

It doesn't have to solve all their problems - that used to really paralyze me, a lead magnet that solved all of their problems, and I would just get lost in the weeds. But does it solve their perceived problem that they can take a step on at that moment?

Claudia Schalkx

Don't put a lot of time and money into it - put thought into it. The visual aspect of it, you can keep it to a minimum, then when it's up and running, and you know what works, then invest money in it.

So, for instance, to give you a tip, I have a marketing style quiz. And it's on interact, which has a payment plan and hassle-free plan. I started free, and then I went to payment because I have all the technical problems with the mail delivery and all that stuff. I stopped the payment plan.

I set up my quiz completely with train tracks and everything without paying for it. There are ways around that you don't need to spend a lot of money; you don't need to put all your resources in that specialty if it's not delivering the results you want. When it's delivering the results you want, then beautify it, automate it, do whatever you want to it.

Jen Liddy

Just make sure it works first.

I'm going to say if you think that you have a lead magnet, is it using the words that your audience has used to describe their problem? Does it actually solve the problem for them to develop trust in you? If you are solving a problem that's nowhere on your signature system, like it's nowhere that you are actually going to be working with them, then it's a complete waste of time for everybody. So if you're struggling with any of these things, knowing what your audience really is, what they say, what your signature system is, then that's what Claudia and I help you with.

Claudia Schalkx

Make an appointment with Jen because she's a genius at ironing out all the kinks in your sequences in your freebie.

Jen Liddy

That's fun for me too.

Oh, I just did that with you; I forgot we just did that. And the thing was, though, the best part of working with you on your freebie, because, I was like, "Oh, you say that they're gonna get this, but they actually get this blah blah, blah, blah blah" - was that you're so coachable!

You're just like, alright, OK, and you just did it.

You just changed that, and that's the thing you didn't take it personally.

Claudia Schalkx

When you have the luxury of having somebody looking at your thing from the outside, that is the best precedent for buyers with fresh eyes. You can give to your freebie or your marketing or your business, hire somebody who helps you see your business, from the outer side, how other people see your business, how other people see and experiences your lead magnet, how other people see and experiences, your content.

I wrote a blog post that you manage, with a couple of tweaks to turn into four blog posts that made my life, in principle, very measurable. But now I have, with the same effort, four blog posts.

Jen Liddy

And probably like 20 social posts from that too!

I've put Claudia's link there, but I've also invited you to this little thing that I do, called a feedback audit. And I can give you feedback; you can tweak it, we can talk about it. It's actually pretty fun and easy.

If you have questions about lead magnets or you have comments, please tag us and leave them below because we'd love to answer your questions, and we'll be back next week.

Bye, everybody.

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